Comments on: Politics, Ethics and Network Analysis http://www.drewconway.com/zia/?p=1321 How can the social sciences, mathematics and computer science combine to affect national security policy? Mon, 06 Sep 2010 14:57:18 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 By: Drew Conway http://www.drewconway.com/zia/?p=1321&cpage=1#comment-2042 Drew Conway Wed, 30 Sep 2009 23:25:00 +0000 http://www.drewconway.com/zia/?p=1321#comment-2042 David, I used to follow the HTS discussion on both of these blogs, but to be honest I found that the discussion often devolved into Town Hall-esque shouting matches, so I lost interest. I will have to catch up--thank you for reminding me! David,

I used to follow the HTS discussion on both of these blogs, but to be honest I found that the discussion often devolved into Town Hall-esque shouting matches, so I lost interest. I will have to catch up–thank you for reminding me!

]]> By: david ronfeldt http://www.drewconway.com/zia/?p=1321&cpage=1#comment-2037 david ronfeldt Wed, 30 Sep 2009 18:56:43 +0000 http://www.drewconway.com/zia/?p=1321#comment-2037 in case this topic still interests anyone, now i see i should have noted that there has been a lot of coverage about HTS and related writings these past few years at this blog as well: http://openanthropology.wordpress.com/ that coverage has been newly active lately, and has just aroused additional discussion here this week: http://marctyrrell.com/ (aka: in harmonium) all in all, there appears to be quite an interplay between methodological and philosophical concerns that spans both the anthro and the socnet fields. in case this topic still interests anyone, now i see i should have noted that there has been a lot of coverage about HTS and related writings these past few years at this blog as well:

http://openanthropology.wordpress.com/

that coverage has been newly active lately, and has just aroused additional discussion here this week:

http://marctyrrell.com/ (aka: in harmonium)

all in all, there appears to be quite an interplay between methodological and philosophical concerns that spans both the anthro and the socnet fields.

]]> By: SOCNET is the new CRAIGSLIST? « Blog of the Borg http://www.drewconway.com/zia/?p=1321&cpage=1#comment-1967 SOCNET is the new CRAIGSLIST? « Blog of the Borg Wed, 23 Sep 2009 19:29:16 +0000 http://www.drewconway.com/zia/?p=1321#comment-1967 [...] Drew Conway [...] [...] Drew Conway [...]

]]> By: Drew Conway http://www.drewconway.com/zia/?p=1321&cpage=1#comment-1959 Drew Conway Tue, 22 Sep 2009 18:47:59 +0000 http://www.drewconway.com/zia/?p=1321#comment-1959 David, You are quite right, and I have covered the HTS issues a few times in the past (http://www.drewconway.com/zia/?tag=hts), but not discussed in detail the ethical considerations. The best article I read on the program was actually in Men's Journal (http://www.mensjournal.com/new-war-for-hearts-and-minds) and Wired's Danger Room blog has done a decent job covering this program. Surprisingly, there has been no comparison of the HTS program to the original post that sparked the SOCNET controversy, especially given the network component of the HTS program. One possible reason is that the actual methodological nuts and bolts of HTS are not well-known, and thus difficult to critique. David,

You are quite right, and I have covered the HTS issues a few times in the past (http://www.drewconway.com/zia/?tag=hts), but not discussed in detail the ethical considerations.

The best article I read on the program was actually in Men’s Journal (http://www.mensjournal.com/new-war-for-hearts-and-minds) and Wired’s Danger Room blog has done a decent job covering this program.

Surprisingly, there has been no comparison of the HTS program to the original post that sparked the SOCNET controversy, especially given the network component of the HTS program. One possible reason is that the actual methodological nuts and bolts of HTS are not well-known, and thus difficult to critique.

]]> By: david ronfeldt http://www.drewconway.com/zia/?p=1321&cpage=1#comment-1958 david ronfeldt Tue, 22 Sep 2009 15:57:40 +0000 http://www.drewconway.com/zia/?p=1321#comment-1958 notice that a similar kind of discussion -- rife with angry posts and conference gatherings -- occurred over the past several years around our military's interest in hiring anthropologists, particularly to advance the application of "human terrain" analysis in war zones, esp. afghanistan and iraq. i have a vague memory you may have posted about that kind of analysis already, drew. but not about the ethical issues and rhetoric it aroused. much of that was covered at the following two anthro blogs: http://www.antropologi.info/blog/anthropology/ http://savageminds.org/ there are also a couple of good journal articles about the travail, but i don't have them handy. surely this comparison already came up on your list discussion? involving some of the same scholars? i ask about that since human terrain analysis was supposed to be quite network-oriented. notice that a similar kind of discussion — rife with angry posts and conference gatherings — occurred over the past several years around our military’s interest in hiring anthropologists, particularly to advance the application of “human terrain” analysis in war zones, esp. afghanistan and iraq.

i have a vague memory you may have posted about that kind of analysis already, drew. but not about the ethical issues and rhetoric it aroused. much of that was covered at the following two anthro blogs:

http://www.antropologi.info/blog/anthropology/
http://savageminds.org/

there are also a couple of good journal articles about the travail, but i don’t have them handy.

surely this comparison already came up on your list discussion? involving some of the same scholars? i ask about that since human terrain analysis was supposed to be quite network-oriented.

]]> By: Drew Conway http://www.drewconway.com/zia/?p=1321&cpage=1#comment-1957 Drew Conway Tue, 22 Sep 2009 15:20:52 +0000 http://www.drewconway.com/zia/?p=1321#comment-1957 Jeremy, Thank you for the compliments on the blog, and you make an excellent point about the quality of the soldiers' judgment--something that is too often overlooked. Steve, Thank you for pointing that out, the post has been updated with your correction. Jeremy, Thank you for the compliments on the blog, and you make an excellent point about the quality of the soldiers’ judgment–something that is too often overlooked.

Steve, Thank you for pointing that out, the post has been updated with your correction.

]]> By: Steve Borgatti http://www.drewconway.com/zia/?p=1321&cpage=1#comment-1956 Steve Borgatti Tue, 22 Sep 2009 15:05:13 +0000 http://www.drewconway.com/zia/?p=1321#comment-1956 Just a small correction: Barry reminded us that he was founder of INSNA. I founded SOCNET in 1993, and served as listmaster until about 6 months ago. Just a small correction: Barry reminded us that he was founder of INSNA. I founded SOCNET in 1993, and served as listmaster until about 6 months ago.

]]> By: Jeremy http://www.drewconway.com/zia/?p=1321&cpage=1#comment-1941 Jeremy Tue, 22 Sep 2009 02:46:20 +0000 http://www.drewconway.com/zia/?p=1321#comment-1941 Great blog all around. I am a fan. I too have worked with social scientists in the DOD, and have often heard the debate over scientific tools/processes potentially providing the military with an unethical advantage. This never made sense to me. Without structured analysis or software enabled analysis, junior military members are left to perform analysis using nothing but their brains and common sense, both of which have huge flaws that scientific methods and computers can help them mitigate to certain degrees. And the troops are smart enough to know that garbage in means garbage out. I tire quickly of those who only focus on the potential negative effects of making others smarter. Great blog all around. I am a fan. I too have worked with social scientists in the DOD, and have often heard the debate over scientific tools/processes potentially providing the military with an unethical advantage. This never made sense to me. Without structured analysis or software enabled analysis, junior military members are left to perform analysis using nothing but their brains and common sense, both of which have huge flaws that scientific methods and computers can help them mitigate to certain degrees. And the troops are smart enough to know that garbage in means garbage out. I tire quickly of those who only focus on the potential negative effects of making others smarter.

]]> By: Ann http://www.drewconway.com/zia/?p=1321&cpage=1#comment-1939 Ann Mon, 21 Sep 2009 23:02:14 +0000 http://www.drewconway.com/zia/?p=1321#comment-1939 I would love to see this panel. I also think this discussion hinged as much on a disagreement with who the "bad guys" are as it did with what "scientific research" is. You might also be interested in the special issue of ethics in SNA that appeared in Social Networks in 2005, particularly the article by Goolsby: "Ethics and defense agency funding: some considerations." Coming at it from a different angle, but very interesting. I would love to see this panel. I also think this discussion hinged as much on a disagreement with who the “bad guys” are as it did with what “scientific research” is.

You might also be interested in the special issue of ethics in SNA that appeared in Social Networks in 2005, particularly the article by Goolsby: “Ethics and defense agency funding: some considerations.” Coming at it from a different angle, but very interesting.

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